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11-07-2008, 05:55 PM | #126 | |
4v>3v>2v
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 727
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
Let me see if I have this straight. Your Ford harmonic balancer failed, resulting in a scratched up timing cover so the solution is to install a part known to inadequately control crankshaft harmonics. And when it causes your oil pump gears to fail and subsequently destroy your engine, it's going to be Fords fault? Ford screws up enough on their own. They don’t need to accept the responsibility for other manufacturers garbage too. |
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11-07-2008, 06:06 PM | #127 | |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
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UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
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11-07-2008, 06:17 PM | #128 | |
4v>3v>2v
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
And I'm not sure what you are refering to when you say I "havent seen one". I've seen and used both Ford and Steeda balancers. The Steeda is a very nice looking piece. Just poorly engineered and executed. As far as the Ford balancer failures. Most of them have been on the new Aluminator crate engine that was assembled using the incorrect damper/timing cover combination. Not an inherent flaw in the damper itself. |
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11-07-2008, 06:30 PM | #129 |
Torque wins!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 13,167
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Actually, the Alluminator issue was due to the thrust bearing.
People need to stop treating a mod motor like a pushrod motor. Just say NO to UDP's. It's not worth the risk.
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11-07-2008, 06:30 PM | #130 | |
4V GT
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MS
Posts: 1,205
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
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I would have went with another stock damper, ATI, Innovator's West, or even a Fluidampr over the Steeda. |
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11-07-2008, 06:43 PM | #131 |
4v>3v>2v
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 727
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
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11-07-2008, 06:45 PM | #132 | |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
__________________
UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
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11-07-2008, 07:02 PM | #133 | |
4v>3v>2v
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 727
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
My opinion is that it's prudent to be safe. If I'm wrong, nobody gets hurt. In light of all the evidence presented in this thread, why would anybody take the risk. If you want a safe underive damper, buy a Fluidamper. If you want the best, buy an ATI. It's a no brainer. Don't screw around. |
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11-07-2008, 07:27 PM | #134 | |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
__________________
UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 Last edited by rich1; 11-07-2008 at 07:43 PM. |
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11-08-2008, 12:25 PM | #135 | ||
4V GT
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MS
Posts: 1,205
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
From his book, "There also seems to be increased instances of oil-pump failure when some brands of underdrive pulley kits are used. I believe this is due to inadequate damping with the reduced-diameter harmonic balancer provided. Steeda and ASP both make pulley sets that include a built-in harmonic balancer." (p. 22, How to Build Max Performance 4.6-liter Ford Engines) He goes on to say, "The net of all this information is to use the '96-'01 Cobra balancer (F6ZZ-6312-AB) on all manual transmission, forged crank applications, and the newer '99-'03 GT balancer on the cast-crank, manual transmission applications. The '03 Mach 1 automatic balancer would be the best choice on a cast-crank, automatic-tranny application." (p.23) So basically every major Modular engine builder agrees, small diameter underdrive harmonic dampers increase the likelihood of broken oil pumps gears in Modulars. Since these guys are the ones who personlly see hundreds and even thousands of these engines, they can see commonalities with certain failures. I'll take their word... Quote:
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11-09-2008, 08:35 PM | #136 |
Registered User
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Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 140
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
WOW!, what a hot topic here. I am running the Steeda underdrive pulley on my 5 speed Mach and have not had any issues with it yet but have only had it on for about 6 months but have made about 15 passes down the track with it. I am a little concerned now. Where can I buy the fluiddamper underdrive pulley for my Mach to replace the steeda? This post has me a little concerned as I don't have $7,000.00 to spend on a new motor. This pulley deal sound alot like the nitrous debate. Can it be used safely well in my book Nitrous is not worth the risk and this pulley deal sounds the same way.
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11-11-2008, 11:53 AM | #137 |
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Location: Penn.
Posts: 390
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
March dampener/WP pulley, CobraR PS and Alt... running strong
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Mach1 - manual 90MM LMAF, PHP intake spacer, BBK catted X, Borla Stinger cat-back, March crank pulley, CobraR PS/alt/WP pulleys, FRPP 4.10, JLT RAI, SCT Last edited by 305HP; 08-15-2009 at 05:52 PM. |
08-15-2009, 05:50 PM | #138 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
can anyone tell me if the march UDP's are as bad for the cobras as they are for the mach 1, i have a set that i was going to sell to my buddy and didnt know if he would run into the same problems with the oil pump n stuff?
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08-15-2009, 05:52 PM | #139 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Mines March, not sure why I said ATi in the post above.
MANY guys swear by March.
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Mach1 - manual 90MM LMAF, PHP intake spacer, BBK catted X, Borla Stinger cat-back, March crank pulley, CobraR PS/alt/WP pulleys, FRPP 4.10, JLT RAI, SCT |
08-15-2009, 07:04 PM | #140 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
If you ever got off this site to other mod motor sites, you'd see they do.
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Mach1 - manual 90MM LMAF, PHP intake spacer, BBK catted X, Borla Stinger cat-back, March crank pulley, CobraR PS/alt/WP pulleys, FRPP 4.10, JLT RAI, SCT |
08-15-2009, 08:51 PM | #141 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
I've recommended the March Fluid dampener to numerous people and none have had any problems.
How mnay people have spun rod bearings becuase they beat on their car? How many engines have been damaged to bad or aggressive tunes? How many engines have been hurt by nitrous or too much boost? I bet the numbers of these incindents are far greater than those that have been damaged by a small diameter dampener. Install one and keep the RPMs at a level that is safe and the engine will be fine.
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08-15-2009, 09:28 PM | #142 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
You really need to get rid of the big @ss sig, geez.
No one can change physics and I'm not trying too, but I've seen no failures with this dampener and it's installed on a lot of Machs and Cobras. As for it's mass, it may have less but the fluid makes up for it. Also, the new Steeda and Moto Blue dampeners have a large amount of mass, equal to or more than a stock dampener so I would recommend them also.
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08-15-2009, 10:11 PM | #143 |
Mach Underhood
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
March fluid damper here.
Used to use Steedas, but I like the March better. No problems to date with modulars and ud's. (since 1999) I spin stock motors past 7k, quite often.
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08-16-2009, 01:58 AM | #144 |
4v>3v>2v
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Dunno about the fluid filled units but the way Steeda and Moto Blue have distributed the mass they've added to their dampers is suspect. I'd give these new dampers a little more time before trusting one on my own vehicle and by all means we need to quit making excuses for their failures by comparing them to other negligent parts as if that somehow makes it OK.
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08-16-2009, 12:09 PM | #145 | |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
With the fact that oil pumps have gone on stock engines, for all we know that pump was already on its way out. Nothing was ever shown that it was the pulley that actually caused it, Did they tear down the engine and inspect it BEFORE the pulley? I'm sure they didn't. If March was actually the cause they would also have to pull the Cobra pulley due to there would be hundreds of Cobras blowing up from it. I look around on SVTp, and I NEVER see people complaining about "omg my pully killed my car!" about 1/3 of the users there are running a pulley of some brand and in 5yrs I have NEVER seen a post on that site blaming an oil pump failure on a pulley. Hell look around here, there are many people here using them too, yet since I've been a member I've never seen a oil pump break and be proven its the pulleys fault. Same with my local mustang club, we have a Mach1, 99 Cobra, and 01 Cobra, none have issues due to the pulleys, and the Cobras are using Steeda brand (the new redesign), and I hve a March. 18,000 miles with no problem in my case. Just because an engine builder doesn't use it, doesn't mean it's not a good product, it just means they might not be getting a discount or sponsorship on them.
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Mach1 - manual 90MM LMAF, PHP intake spacer, BBK catted X, Borla Stinger cat-back, March crank pulley, CobraR PS/alt/WP pulleys, FRPP 4.10, JLT RAI, SCT |
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08-16-2009, 01:03 PM | #146 |
Im UnrealFord
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Hmm . How old is this, I am not sure , but they are using March pullies and talk about in the first couple paragraphs about the balancing and dampning of the SOHC
http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/fcar/pull1.htm |
08-16-2009, 01:47 PM | #147 |
The MODfather #7046
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
I have almost two years on my Steeda UDP's....
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08-16-2009, 03:06 PM | #148 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
3 years and a daily driver.
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08-16-2009, 05:27 PM | #149 |
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
I just bought an ATI to put on my car after the A/C compressor grenaded recently. I'm hoping that the underdrive can make the new compressor last with the relatively high RPMs from my 3:90 gears and raised shift points. Up until my first stroker engine swap a couple of years ago, I ran an SLP underdrive balancer for 2 valve cars without incident.
Of course I have stated many times that I don't think automatic cars have ever been affected due to the torque converter acting as an auxilliary balancer on the rear of the crank. The lower stock redline probably doesn't hurt either.
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08-16-2009, 05:29 PM | #150 |
4v>3v>2v
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
If you honestly want to understand this topic than you should take the time to read this thread. There is a lot of good information that will help you make a better informed decision. As to your point about engine builders, understand that it's not that they just dont use them, it's that every respected modular engine builder says NOT to use them. They advise AGAINST it. They say DONT do it. It has nothing to do with discounts or sponsorship. It is simply shared expertise coming from the people who know best.
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