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01-10-2008, 08:10 PM | #1 |
CAT MASTA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 3,406
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Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
I felt it was time to make a sticky about these things and end all threads about them.
Under Drive Pulleys (or commonly referred to as UDP's) are used to slow down the engines accessories. by doing so, you free up HP and TQ that would normally been lost. The problem in doing so is...when you decrease the size of the harmonic balancer, you decrease the amount of vibrations that can be absorbed and canceled out. This is a MAJOR problem when running the factory oil pump, the gears in these pumps are very weak. and any increases in vibrations reaching the teeth GREATLY increase the chance of failure. This failure will most likely occur at very high RPM's, when vibrations are at the highest frequency and intensity. if oil pump failure occurs at 7,000 RPM's...your engine is TOAST. My Recommendation: ALL people who own a Mach 1 is to STAY AWAY from them. 15hp is NOT worth the chance of jepordizing your engine.
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04' Torched 6-speed Build Date: 02/25/2004 Ported Eaton @7psi Viper T-56 Built 8.8,4.10's 441/402 |
01-10-2008, 09:20 PM | #2 |
Braderunna
Join Date: May 2004
Location: hampton, va
Posts: 4,949
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Something I wrote in another thread:
The harmonic damper is there to absorb torsional vibrations of the crank, principally at harmonics of the rotational frequency. The crank is not rigid, it twists and rebounds like a very stiff spring in response to the power pulses coming from the individual cylinders and associated pistons. The crank in conjunction with the harmonic damper forms a classic "spring-mass-damper" system. The response of such a system is sensitive to the spring rate, the effective mass, and the characteristics of the damper. In the case of a rotational system, the absolute mass is not as important as the rotational effective mass which is a combination of the static mass and the mass moment of inertia (MMOI - essentially a measure of the geometry of the system and how the mass is distributed). Smaller pulleys, with a lower dynamic mass thanks to decreased MMOI, allow excessive torsional vibrations, and those are what damages the relatively brittle gerotors in the pump. Or at least that is my understanding...
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"Sparky"- 2003 Azure Blue w/MT and IUP Visit my garage on mach1mustang.org for details. |
01-10-2008, 11:07 PM | #3 |
AZURE BLUE MACH
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 68
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Thanks yall I didnt know that and I was about to get some pulleys. I finnaly found a thread I needed.Thats awesome.
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2004 AB Mach 1 Some Mods Kelley Performance |
01-11-2008, 03:50 AM | #4 |
4v>3v>2v
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 727
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Also, 15hp is very optimistic. For most DOHC's 5hp would be more accurate.
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01-11-2008, 01:41 PM | #5 | |
Death God
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 770
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
WHy does this not break parts on the 99-01 Cobra?
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Black, 5spd, IUP, 4.10, SCT, MGW, BBK X, Borla Stinger Catback, K&N intake, PHP intake spacer :: Jon Lund tuned 300/332 Mustang dyno Since Tune: JLT RAI, Cobra 10th AE wheels, 90mm MAF, Accufab, March pulley set Last edited by Shinigami; 01-11-2008 at 02:11 PM. |
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01-11-2008, 02:55 PM | #6 |
CAT MASTA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 3,406
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
15hp is what they advertise.
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04' Torched 6-speed Build Date: 02/25/2004 Ported Eaton @7psi Viper T-56 Built 8.8,4.10's 441/402 |
01-11-2008, 04:01 PM | #7 | |
Torque-a-licious
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Foster City, CA
Posts: 1,516
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
I agree.. Yep.
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Cobra motor in. 422/453tq With 2lb lower and re-tune: 492/502tq Quote:
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01-11-2008, 04:10 PM | #8 |
Braderunna
Join Date: May 2004
Location: hampton, va
Posts: 4,949
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
It does.
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"Sparky"- 2003 Azure Blue w/MT and IUP Visit my garage on mach1mustang.org for details. |
01-11-2008, 04:26 PM | #9 |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Hummmmmm...... I have the pullies on an 04 Mach auto.I have not had any problems.But it was strange that the box from Steeda said Part# 701-0004/Mustang 01 Cobra.I called them to tell them they sent the wrong ones .They said those are the ones that work on a Mach without any issues! That was 2 years ago.
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UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
01-11-2008, 04:30 PM | #10 |
Death God
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 770
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Then why do I not see all this "OH GOD NO DONT DO THAT" on the cobra sites?
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Black, 5spd, IUP, 4.10, SCT, MGW, BBK X, Borla Stinger Catback, K&N intake, PHP intake spacer :: Jon Lund tuned 300/332 Mustang dyno Since Tune: JLT RAI, Cobra 10th AE wheels, 90mm MAF, Accufab, March pulley set |
01-11-2008, 04:46 PM | #11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 409 Texas
Posts: 130
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
what about light weight pullies? with no under driving.
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01-11-2008, 04:52 PM | #12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Schertz, TX
Posts: 2,639
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
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Zinc yellow NMRA Factory Stock configuration Coyote 5.0 engine, FRPP Control Pack and a bunch of other stuff. Best ET in this configuration 10.693@123 |
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01-11-2008, 05:03 PM | #13 |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Hey, I really do not know ,mabey the 01 Cobras pullies are different and do not cause failures I know some brands have had problems ,but I have seen cheap ones at the shop not fit well or installed wrong and wobble.But the broken oil pumps from the pullies have also happened on the GT cars too.Pauls Hi Performace says the same thing.I know that Moto Blue and Steeda are known quality and both have ties to Ford.I am NOT saying there may be a not be problem though!!
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UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
01-11-2008, 05:22 PM | #14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madera, CA
Posts: 7,687
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Not to mention slowMatics have a lower redline. Most guys that have autos and get up there in the 'scary rpms' dont' have UDs...much less a stock motor (SHOOSH BILL).
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Current Stable: NO stangs.....DON'T F'ING remind me. Previous stangs: 2003 Mineral Grey Cobra Vert 1965 Factory GT K Code Coupe - mostly original and numbers matching. 14.9 (best) GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!! 2003 MACh 1 AB - MINE!..SLP LM1s, PHP Spacer, and a CAI, that wont' stop whistling. 2004 MACh 1 DSG - PHP spacer, BOrla Stingers, K and N CAI, Tune, X-pipe, 1" 1-piece raised shaker...yadda yadda. |
01-11-2008, 05:37 PM | #15 |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Mabey the higher RPMs on a 5 speed when a gear is missed adds stress too ?
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UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
01-11-2008, 05:48 PM | #16 |
CAT MASTA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 3,406
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
it adds ALOT of stress.
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04' Torched 6-speed Build Date: 02/25/2004 Ported Eaton @7psi Viper T-56 Built 8.8,4.10's 441/402 |
01-11-2008, 06:38 PM | #17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,476
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Im not trying to sway anyones opinion of UDP's.Below is what Steeda has to say about their pulleys. So anybody ever experience problems with these? Or are the problems occuring in other manufacturers?
http://www.steeda.com/products/steed...ve_pulleys.php Product Details Steeda's is the leader in underdrive pulley design for the 4.6L engines. Steeda was the first to achieve SFI approval on our underdrive pulleys for all 4.6L engines. Our underdrive pulleys are the only pulleys engineered through our unique partnership in Ford's technology transfer program to have the proper torsional vibration dampening characteristics for your 4.6L engine. No other manufacturer can make this claim. Dont be fooled by other manufacturer's and their "state of the art" process claims. Steeda uses the latest technology directly from O.E. sources. Steeda's crank pulley is a one piece nodular iron, injection molded rubber design. Not a cheap "piggyback" design like many of our competitors use. Special rubber materials were chosen for their ability to absorb the torsional vibrations and their ability to withstand underhood temperatures. Steeda's underdrive pulleys slow down accessory speed by about 25% reducing parasitic acccessory drag on the engine. This drag reduction results in an increase of up to 10 horsepower and increased gas mileage! Get back the horsepower and torque your belt driven accessories steal and start enjoying better performance and gas mileage today! *03 Mach 1 doesnt use alternator pulley. Crankshaft U/D pulleys in very limited surplus, order now while supplies last.
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US-10 13.2 bone stock |
01-11-2008, 07:12 PM | #18 | ||
Registered User
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Location: Madera, CA
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
Quote:
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Current Stable: NO stangs.....DON'T F'ING remind me. Previous stangs: 2003 Mineral Grey Cobra Vert 1965 Factory GT K Code Coupe - mostly original and numbers matching. 14.9 (best) GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!! 2003 MACh 1 AB - MINE!..SLP LM1s, PHP Spacer, and a CAI, that wont' stop whistling. 2004 MACh 1 DSG - PHP spacer, BOrla Stingers, K and N CAI, Tune, X-pipe, 1" 1-piece raised shaker...yadda yadda. |
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01-11-2008, 07:31 PM | #19 |
CAT MASTA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 3,406
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
and heres a head up for you guys that didnt know.....mach 1's come STOCK with a UD pulley on the alternator.
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04' Torched 6-speed Build Date: 02/25/2004 Ported Eaton @7psi Viper T-56 Built 8.8,4.10's 441/402 |
01-11-2008, 09:00 PM | #20 |
AUTOMACHTIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RTP/ N.C.
Posts: 4,813
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Steeda sends 3 pullies when you order but tells you the Alt .pullie is not to be used unless worn or damaged on a MACH. Motoblue has been making FFRP pullies forever! .
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UPGRADES...Tokico Illuminas Borla SS Catback , Steeda Underdrives , Strut Brace , HPM Lower K Brace , L /C Arms , U /C Arms , HPM PanHard Bar, K&N FRPK 2, GOODYEAR GT1 , MRT- H-Pipe , JLT VaporTraps , SLP-12'" Tips! , FRPP Shorty 1 5/8 Headers , Brembo D/S & PBR D/S Rotors ,FRPP Alum.DS ,Roys 3/8 Spacer , SVT Focus 255 pump SCTsw Chip PRO-DYNOjet NA 300.01hp /315tq (Auto) ,Innovate W/B ,Compucar Wet Kit (90jet) + Heater and E Gauge * 360 hp/385tq 12.5 -1/4 @112 |
01-11-2008, 09:35 PM | #21 |
CAT MASTA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
01 cobras may have a differnt oil pump. i havent looked into the specs on them.
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04' Torched 6-speed Build Date: 02/25/2004 Ported Eaton @7psi Viper T-56 Built 8.8,4.10's 441/402 |
01-12-2008, 11:01 PM | #22 | |
Serious Business
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Jenkintown, PA
Posts: 843
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Redlining your car is going to cause problems with UD's or not. The increased vibrations will always be there, the UD's will just let more of the vibrations resonate throughout the crank. Here is how that is solved: DON'T BE STUPID AND REDLINE OR GET ANYWHERE NEAR THAT!
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01-12-2008, 11:20 PM | #23 | |
LuLz
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Location: Cedar Park, TX
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
Quote:
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11 Sterling gray GT500 coupe 08 Silver Z06 1058rwhp/1073rwt @ 15psi 14 Silver Q50S Vortech blown 04 DSG Mach 1 (stolen) 03 OW Mach 1 (sitting in a field rotting away) |
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01-12-2008, 11:28 PM | #24 |
Death God
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 770
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
ive told conflict before not the get UDP's....he doesnt listen to me...
If he doest go "any where near redline" I'd love to know what he shifts at at the track
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Black, 5spd, IUP, 4.10, SCT, MGW, BBK X, Borla Stinger Catback, K&N intake, PHP intake spacer :: Jon Lund tuned 300/332 Mustang dyno Since Tune: JLT RAI, Cobra 10th AE wheels, 90mm MAF, Accufab, March pulley set |
01-13-2008, 07:28 PM | #25 |
Death God
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.
i do find it odd some 99-01 cobras have 100+k with pullies and no problems.
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Black, 5spd, IUP, 4.10, SCT, MGW, BBK X, Borla Stinger Catback, K&N intake, PHP intake spacer :: Jon Lund tuned 300/332 Mustang dyno Since Tune: JLT RAI, Cobra 10th AE wheels, 90mm MAF, Accufab, March pulley set |
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