whipple, KB, eaton?

[indianpeter]

ok..after 8 years of enjoying my Mach, i'm at the point where i think i'm finally ready to take the PD "blower" plunge...
this is a 23k mile, stick "toy", no d/d responsibilities, BBK long tubes, 4:10's and all the usual bolt ons...
i'm not looking for a million horsepower, maybe 450 ish..and i DO NOT want to take motor apart...
lets assume money isn't an issue (even though it is!!!)
what setup is netting the best results with the least amount of aggravation?
thanks for any input!

[DSG2003Mach1]

1) kb doesnt make kits anymore, I saw something about ford stopped making the lower intake pieces they needed

2) whipple - have to do a full eaton swap then buy the whipple kit

VMP does have a TVS coming for the terminators, it would probably work as well

the eaton should get you to 450 though

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

I would say eaton swap if you only want 450ish. 450 is safe on a stock motor with a good tune like with any stock motor car. 4.10 maybe alittle much of a gear for a pd blower unless you have some good dr but still goin to be all over the place I think. I think a Whipple with a eaton swap or a Kb would be over kill on a stock motor. A vortech would love a 4.10 gear and sound great ay idle.

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by xXAzureMach1Xx

I think a Whipple with a eaton swap or a Kb would be over kill on a stock motor.

That can't be done.

[04Mach1Blurr]

Not to steer you away from a manifold blower, but have you also thought about centrifugals? If you want reliablity an eaton swap or a centrifugal with a very very safe tune can yield 430-450hp. It depends on your tuner and how safe you run it, 8psi as i sure you know is secure.

[04Mach1Blurr]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

That can't be done.

Always so positive... is the name of the game sir

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by 04Mach1Blurr

Always so positive... is the name of the game sir

Come again?

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by LOOKnGO

He wants you to be more polite, you know, an asss kisser. Lol

Oh I see LOL.



Please sir that can't be done.

Better?

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

That can't be done.

What you mean willis For the money you cant beat a eaton swap if you only want 450ish hp. If there is bigger and better plans then go whipple but he said he only wanted 450 hp.

[ASH302]

I would say Whipple
I've talked it over a few times before and have thought about doing it for awhile now, but i'm thinking down the road i want to take the procharger off an do a whipple s/c on mine.

the thing is that if i was going with a KB, i would want a 2.2 and up one, well with that, i would have to do the other little parts i would also need if i was going to a whipple,

for budget wise a eaton swap is best bang for the buck

ASh

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by DSG2003Mach1

1)the eaton should get you to 450 though

i'm sure you car get around 530rwhp to 550rwhp out of a eaton swap, give it alittle more credit

ASh

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by xXAzureMach1Xx

What you mean willis For the money you cant beat a eaton swap if you only want 450ish hp. If there is bigger and better plans then go whipple but he said he only wanted 450 hp.

You said Whipple and stock motor giving the original poster an idea it could be done. It can't. You need to choose your words more carefully and be a little more clear.

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

You said Whipple and stock motor giving the original poster an idea it could be done. It can't. You need to choose your words more carefully and be a little more clear.

ok i'm confused, lol
i thought for use to do a whipple set up. We have to basically do a eaton swap kit and then order the whipple to throw it on there,

what i also thought that to do a KB 2.2 and up you had to do a eaton wap and then could do a KB2.2 and up

ASh

[halemach1]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

You said Whipple and stock motor giving the original poster an idea it could be done. It can't. You need to choose your words more carefully and be a little more clear.

What exactly are you saying "can't" be done?

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by txmach302

ok i'm confused, lol
i thought for use to do a whipple set up. We have to basically do a eaton swap kit and then order the whipple to throw it on there,

what i also thought that to do a KB 2.2 and up you had to do a eaton wap and then could do a KB2.2 and up

ASh

Where are you getting this 2.2 from? They have long been discontinued so unless your buying a used 2.2 KB for an 03-04 Cobra (which they're highly sought after by the way) get that out of your mind.

Originally Posted by halemach1

What exactly are you saying "can't" be done?

I'm saying you cannot put a Whipple on a "stock" Mach 1 motor. It will blow within one dyno pull.

[TRMach1]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

Where are you getting this 2.2 from? They have long been discontinued so unless your buying a used 2.2 KB for an 03-04 Cobra (which they're highly sought after by the way) get that out of your mind.

I'm saying you cannot put a Whipple on a "stock" Mach 1 motor. It will blow within one dyno pull.

Which is why, if you are considering forced induction, beyond a small shot of nitrous, you should spend the extra coin and forge the bottom end of the motor. Don't be penny-wise and pound foolish (old time saying). You forge the bottom end, and your options are pretty much endless, you don't forge the bottom end, and you pick the wrong combination of blower, or tuner, and BAM, you have a lot of nice little paperweights to put on your desk!

[2k4mach]

Originally Posted by TRMach1

BAM, you have a lot of nice little paperweights to put on your desk!

some pieces make great business card holders

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

Where are you getting this 2.2 from? They have long been discontinued so unless your buying a used 2.2 KB for an 03-04 Cobra (which they're highly sought after by the way) get that out of your mind..

i was just using that as a example cuz not to long ago that is the info i was being told by on here, which ever there not making the 2.1 anymore, but lets just say if the guy found someone seeing a 2.2 or up he would need to know what he is getting himself iinto. that is why i was sayin the 2.2 and up would be like doing a whipple set up

ASh

[dino]

Originally Posted by TRMach1

Which is why, if you are considering forced induction, beyond a small shot of nitrous, you should spend the extra coin and forge the bottom end of the motor. Don't be penny-wise and pound foolish (old time saying). You forge the bottom end, and your options are pretty much endless, you don't forge the bottom end, and you pick the wrong combination of blower, or tuner, and BAM, you have a lot of nice little paperweights to put on your desk!

This post is so much fail.

EDIT(now that i'm on a comp and not my phone): the forging of the bottom end only builds strength against power. not strength against bad tunes and ****ups. not even kryptonite will save you then.
a correctly setup boosted car will reliably produce 420 easily, 450 depending on setup. and i mean reliably. i know 2 cars locally that have been boosted for over 100k miles now. only extra maintenance has been, of course, head unit rebuilds.

[TRMach1]

Originally Posted by dino

This post is so much fail.

EDIT(now that i'm on a comp and not my phone): the forging of the bottom end only builds strength against power. not strength against bad tunes and ****ups. not even kryptonite will save you then.
a correctly setup boosted car will reliably produce 420 easily, 450 depending on setup. and i mean reliably. i know 2 cars locally that have been boosted for over 100k miles now. only extra maintenance has been, of course, head unit rebuilds.

Well goody goody for you. I stand by my post 100%. Ask member CMEMach1 how it felt when his impeccably maintained, Jon Lund tuned, Procharged 9psi, stock bottom end broke a ring land after about 30k+ miles.

These stock engines have extremely soft rotating assemblys, and if you plan on pushing 125+ more horsepower, and pressures, than what they were intended for, you better have an insurance policy in the form of some decent rods and pistons, and that's a fact. Sure some people can walk that razors edge and get away with it, just like I'm still running the stock TR3650 tranny, after all the so-called experts claimed it would disintegrate under the kind of power I'm producing, but that doesn't make it the norm.

You're exactly the kind of person I wouldn't let touch my car with a 10 foot pole!

[jeffs]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

Where are you getting this 2.2 from? They have long been discontinued so unless your buying a used 2.2 KB for an 03-04 Cobra (which they're highly sought after by the way) get that out of your mind.

I'm saying you cannot put a Whipple on a "stock" Mach 1 motor. It will blow within one dyno pull.

I don't see how it would blow up if it would only be pullied for 10-12 psi, they do make larger pullies than Terminator guys use. I wouldn't call that a "bang-for-the-buck" route by no means, unless maybe down the road he wanted to upgrade his short-block and later pulley that sucker up to 17-19psi. I think a person could bolt on a F1A onto a small 4 cylinder and drive the blower slow enough that the engine wouldn't "blow" on the first wot pull.

Btw, I've noticed there's alot of "can't be done" stuff in your posts/replies. I'm sure your car rocks, but I wouldn't say that you are the "final" word by no means.

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by jeffs

I don't see how it would blow up if it would only be pullied for 10-12 psi, they do make larger pullies than Terminator guys use. I wouldn't call that a "bang-for-the-buck" route by no means, unless maybe down the road he wanted to upgrade his short-block and later pulley that sucker up to 17-19psi. I think a person could bolt on a F1A onto a small 4 cylinder and drive the blower slow enough that the engine wouldn't "blow" on the first wot pull.

Btw, I've noticed there's alot of "can't be done" stuff in your posts/replies. I'm sure your car rocks, but I wouldn't say that you are the "final" word by no means.

The stock pulley that comes on a 2.3 Whipple for an 03-04 Cobra makes 13 lbs of boost @ 8.5:1 compression. With a Mach 1 motor @ 10.1:1 compression that equates to 15 psi or better. (You did know that more compression means more boost didn't you?) I have many years of experience with many different combos of blowers and motors on Mach 1's so I'm not just spouting off on a topic I know nothing of. What you need to understand is the things you are trying to accomplish I already have.

[ASH302]

Jeffs i think what Scott is tryin to say that some s/c kits are made for higher boost and aren't made for motors that can't take em, it would be likke getting a F1 an putti it on a stock mach 1, would be a waste time and money. the thing is that you might go over kill and hurt yourmotor.

just tryin to help you out and let you know what can/can't happen,

here is a suggestion; why don't you with a stock bottom end do a eaton swap, set yourself up for around 450rwhp and then build up the motor next. once thats done, turn boost up. the when you have enough money do the s/c kit you want

just a suggestion, good luck

ASh

[jeffs]

Originally Posted by txmach302

Jeffs i think what Scott is tryin to say that some s/c kits are made for higher boost and aren't made for motors that can't take em, it would be likke getting a F1 an putti it on a stock mach 1, would be a waste time and money. the thing is that you might go over kill and hurt yourmotor.

just tryin to help you out and let you know what can/can't happen,

here is a suggestion; why don't you with a stock bottom end do a eaton swap, set yourself up for around 450rwhp and then build up the motor next. once thats done, turn boost up. the when you have enough money do the s/c kit you want

just a suggestion, good luck

ASh

I understand what you guys are saying, but if I had a mach 1 and new I wanted to end up with a larger twin screw later down the road, I wouldn't waste my time with an Eaton. Even if it meant paying for a custom 4" blower pulley to keep the boost at bay before doing an engine build to handle some additional boost.

Also, driving a large pd blower slower will still make good power, however the boost, and power will be a bit more linear with rpm sort of like a centrifugal, but not as bad. However, if you plan on staying with your stock reciprocating assembly and your happy with 4xx rwhp, the Eaton will serve you fine.

I'm sort of rambling here, but my main point is that your engine will not blow up just because you place a 2.2 or 2.3 Liter twin screw blower on your Mach if youn keep the boost down..

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by jeffs

I understand what you guys are saying, but if I had a mach 1 and new I wanted to end up with a larger twin screw later down the road, I wouldn't waste my time with an Eaton. Even if it meant paying for a custom 4" blower pulley to keep the boost at bay before doing an engine build to handle some additional boost.

Also, driving a large pd blower slower will still make good power, however the boost, and power will be a bit more linear with rpm sort of like a centrifugal, but not as bad. However, if you plan on staying with your stock reciprocating assembly and your happy with 4xx rwhp, the Eaton will serve you fine.

I'm sort of rambling here, but my main point is that your engine will not blow up just because you place a 2.2 or 2.3 Liter twin screw blower on your Mach if youn keep the boost down..

i know on the procharger when running a D1sc on a stock bottom end you have to put like the biggest pulley on there and really not a aggressive tune what so ever, just cuz its made for bigger boost

what i'm sayin about the eaton is your going to have to buy most of the eaton swwap stuff and buyin the eaton s/c isn't that bad so could atleast have it on there till your ready to go big boost,

to each there own, and also what your budget is

ASh