Why does everybody compare the Mach to the GTO?

[Berman]

I don't get it. The GTO seems to be more of a poor-man's bmw m3 to me. It doesnt seem like a musclecar to me, even though it has the ls1.

That being said, I think the GTO interior is light years ahead of the Mach's interior, and I'm sure it rides and drives a lot tighter.

But is a GTO worh the $10k extra you'll pay? (since you can get a Mach for $24k nowadays with the rebates. that's what i got mine for).

So yeah. That's my $.02

[WhiteLightnin']

Guess they just don't know any better. They think the GTO can best the Mach. I think they're uninformed. I'm looking forward to taking them to school!

[cm_ls1]

they are comparable...

[Berman]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
they are comparable...

Only in terms of performance.

[Berman]

Originally posted by WhiteLightnin'
Guess they just don't know any better. They think the GTO can best the Mach. I think they're uninformed. I'm looking forward to taking them to school!

Put $2k into the GTO and put $2k into the Mach, and I'm sorry to say, but the GTO will own the Mach. LS1s respond much better to mods than our mach's do.

[JOEMACH]

I wouldn't say that the mach would fall to the gto with equal mods, my mach1 is bone stock with those crummy goodyears, so for sh-ts and giggles I ran my buddys SS Camaro and ran dead even up to 3rd and he then barely pulled away....his car has exhaust headers, no cats, flow can exhaust, ram air, hurst shifter,4.11 gears BFG KDW's and a lightened interior. I say make some mods and bring on the GTO.

[WhiteLightnin']

Yeah, I haven't had any problems with ls1's. Plus, everything I've read puts the GTO in the high 13s to low 14s in the quarter. I can run mid 13s all day and I'm not even an experienced drag racer.

[Chini42]

Originally posted by Berman
Only in terms of performance.

what other terms are there?

[fastgta]

Originally posted by Berman
Only in terms of performance.

I'm not buying into this so-called gto, until it proves itself. There are a few hitting the roads by now, I'd say. I personally can't wait to meet up with one, straight line or curves. Spring is coming and my dragstrip will be open soon. I'll find out first hand what they will do. Provided, they can sell any of those things.

[MikeMach1]

Originally posted by fastgta
I'm not buying into this so-called gto, until it proves itself. There are a few hitting the roads by now, I'd say. I personally can't wait to meet up with one, straight line or curves. Spring is coming and my dragstrip will be open soon. I'll find out first hand what they will do. Provided, they can sell any of those things.

Actually they're selling, but GM is having lots of trouble delivering them, and it is frustrating a lot of the people who pre-bought them. The owners are waiting a while for their GTO's, GM said mid-December and in late December a very limited amount of them began trickling out to buyers. I believe that they just started getting here on the east coast in the past two weeks.

As for comparing the Mach to the GTO - their claimed performance times are almost identical. Personally I feel that the LS1 has more modding potential than the engines in our Mach's. Although for the price difference between the our Mach's and both the Cobras and GTOs, if we spend the difference in a supercharger, exhaust and whatever - we'd have both of them squinting trying to see our tail lights all the way down the road. People now are getting their Mach's for around lets say $24.5K-$25K, that's almost $10K less than the GTO, picture spending that $10K in performance mods and think of what you'd have .


I have to say one thing about the new GTO, looking at it doesn't invoke any muscle car feelings. It is a very plain car:

I wouldn't say ugly, well maybe to some this color is, but not a muscular looking car. Supposedly for '05 GM is supposed to add hood scoops and move the exhaust to exit out on the both sides of the rear instead of the one side as it does now. If I couldn't get the Mach, the GTO would be a possible second choice - the engine combo and interior are pretty good.

- Mike

[falcongtho3]

Finding a V-8, 2 door, rear wheel drive car with an available manual transmission narrows the field down considerably, so the Mach 1 and the GTO fall into that narrow catagory, with the Corvette and Ferrari Modena 360 being the only other players out there . With hp figures in the same ballpark and both carrying domestic nameplates (even if one if sourced overseas). Plus, there's a historic rivalry that can be re-ignited and that has to count for something.

[Warp Speed]

I have said in a post similar to this one, that the price of the GTO is more of a comparison to the Cobra.

[03AV8R]

Originally posted by MikeMach1
Actually they're selling, but GM is having lots of trouble delivering them, and it is frustrating a lot of the people who pre-bought them. The owners are waiting a while for their GTO's, GM said mid-December and in late December a very limited amount of them began trickling out to buyers. I believe that they just started getting here on the east coast in the past two weeks.

As for comparing the Mach to the GTO - their claimed performance times are almost identical. Personally I feel that the LS1 has more modding potential than the engines in our Mach's. Although for the price difference between the our Mach's and both the Cobras and GTOs, if we spend the difference in a supercharger, exhaust and whatever - we'd have both of them squinting trying to see our tail lights all the way down the road. People now are getting their Mach's for around lets say $24.5K-$25K, that's almost $10K less than the GTO, picture spending that $10K in performance mods and think of what you'd have .


I have to say one thing about the new GTO, looking at it doesn't invoke any muscle car feelings. It is a very plain car:

I wouldn't say ugly, well maybe to some this color is, but not a muscular looking car. Supposedly for '05 GM is supposed to add hood scoops and move the exhaust to exit out on the both sides of the rear instead of the one side as it does now. If I couldn't get the Mach, the GTO would be a possible second choice - the engine combo and interior are pretty good.

- Mike

The GTO never was the prettiest looking car on the road nor the most intimidating looking car.. Glad they kept to their boring looking tradition.. looks like a Dodge Neon with a pontiac front end.. Everytime i see it from different angles & in different colors it still looks like a "something" with the pontiac front end.. :p

If you put $2000 in a Mach1 youd probably get a complete 2.5" exhaust system, sticky tires, 31 spline axles & an Eaton Posi?? What would you do to the GTO & would you be in mid 12's or better?

[fastgta]

This car reminds me of the old truck ad. Don't you buy an ugly car. Oh well, no accounting for taste. Bring on the spring weather! :THUMBSUP:

[InDShadow]

Originally posted by Warp Speed
I have said in a post similar to this one, that the price of the GTO is more of a comparison to the Cobra.

I've been saying this for years regarding the GT/SS/WS6 comparisions. GM enthusiasts are just afraid to compare their vehicle apples to apples. The Cobra is a 34k car. same as the GTO so it would be logical to even compare the two same price models. But No! GM doesn't want to help Ford sell Cobra's. Ford doesn't need help selling Cobra's. GM needs help selling the GTO.

I'm just waiting to see if Chevy brings back the Chevelle SS looking like the GTO but with the chevy grill. Go ahead GM. killl those sales numbers.

[SHAKR]

Originally posted by WhiteLightnin'
Guess they just don't know any better. They think the GTO can best the Mach. I think they're uninformed. I'm looking forward to taking them to school!

Right on !!

(patiently waiting in Kansas) lol

[butlerusn]

I thought about getting the GTO. It has a more refined, but less distinct look than the Mustang. Plus, for the extra cash- almost $10k after rebates, it was hard to say no- especially with so little extra horsepower. I also am wary of buying the first model year of a completely new car. I just hate watching the companies iron out all the quirks AFTER the cars are on the road!

Hundreds of times I have seen or read of people talking about mods and which cars respond better. I think it is very interesting that GM refuses to take advantage of that big 5.7L engine, even in the Z06 seems to be a little underpowered compared to what Ford does with our 4.6L engines (just an opinion- no flaming please). Of course the GM products show huge responses to mods!

Personally, I like the fact that I have a car that I payed only $25K for and is an established product. It looks like nothing else on the road and has a lot of giddy-up and an intact warranty. :THUMBSUP:

[rok4d]

GTO vs Mach - what is the result when they are stock? Mach wins! Thats what counts. $2000 in mods is not relevant. Because when you get into the mod game, it never ends - the mod lists for both cars will go on and on forever... Once the cars are modified let the guy with the most money win.

If you want to talk total money spent on a car and then race em? Vortech your Mach...installed price of s/c + the cost of the Mach = cost of GTO before any mods. Difference is the Mach will now be pushing 500 hp!

Sorry not meaning to come across as being offensive (being that I am new to this forum and no one knows me yet).

Personnally I do not like the new GTO or any of the 93 and up Camaro's - regardless of performance. This is my second Mustang and I will buy another Mustang - unless Ford gets away from what makes them popular - great styling and performance at a great price. I will never buy a GM product because they miss the target on those basic points IMO.

Thanks for letting me rant.
rok4d

[Berman]

Originally posted by rok4d
If you want to talk total money spent on a car and then race em? Vortech your Mach...installed price of s/c + the cost of the Mach = cost of GTO before any mods. Difference is the Mach will now be pushing 500 hp!

This is my second Mustang and I will buy another Mustang - unless Ford gets away from what makes them popular - great styling and performance at a great price. I will never buy a GM product because they miss the target on those basic points IMO.

I noted the price difference. You are totally right about spending the $10k on the Mach. You would slaughter a GTO so bad it wouldn't even be funny.

So the f-bodies missed the target on performance at a great price? Base LS1 cars stickered at less than our Mach's sticker at. I won't discuss styling because everybody has their own opinions on that one, but how can you possibly diss the performance of the ls1 cars?

[machwal]

saw a pic of the new chevelle. looks like the gto, which looks like every nondescript commuter car on the road. IMO, they both look lame and tame next to the mach.

[InDShadow]

In my area the SS's and WS6's all stickered for over 30K and that was a year prior to the MACH being released. You remember, 2002 the last year of the F-Body! Dealers increase the cost of a vehicle 2% every quarter. Think about that 2% compounded through the year. So our Machs stickered for 29K. They still are stickered at 29K and thats 2 years after the F-Body was put in it's grave. Ford vehicles have always been less expensive to purchase and own compared to the General. With GM you have to pay a premium just for the Bowtie or Pontiac. The Mach is definately the best bang for the buck.

I've owned my share of GM products and I will never again. fit and finish along with creature comforts no thanks. I had the paint on a 88 Camaro come off like ssaran wrap at a car wash. I had a cat blow up at 30k miles and destroy my engine in the same car. The list can go on of Gm vehicles I've owned. The best ones were the Safari van and the Sonoma I had with the 4.3 HO motor. But My MACH is still better than all of them.

[JOEMACH]

I feel the one of the problems with GM right now is their styling, yes their drivetrains are respectible in performance but their styling is VERY plain.........if you're gonna pull an old muscle car name out of retirement, i feel that you should honor it's past with some styling throwbacks of the original model.....the Mach 1 did well with the shaker, the striping, the interior, and the seat of the pants performance of the original Mach. The GTO is missing those identifying styling traits of the originals. It's almost insulting to GTO fans.......I would've been pretty pissed off at Ford if the Mach 1 was just a 2v motor and some stripes and the standard non- functional hoodscoop...GM should've dropped the GTO nameplate and called it a "Holden Special"cause that's what it is, an Australian Chevy with the steering wheel on the correct side......all that aside.....Bring on the GTO.......This Mach is holding court for the Judge.

[rok4d]

Sorry, my explanation was not great (big holes in my train of thought). Firstly my dollar numbers are canadian. In 2000 I bought a new GT, 5 speed, plain jane. Sticker was $29000. I looked at the plain jane camaro as well. Sticker was $34000. Camaro was decent to drive. Then it came time to deal... ford dropped the price by $2000, chev ZERO, no discount... I took the 2k I saved from sticker and put it into the GT. And I was still $5000 ahead. I was just assuming that the GTO would end up being the same situation, and I know we can currently get some really great deals on the Mach (or any Mustang for that matter).

As for performance I cannot argue that the LS1 is a great format and it can really put out some big numbers if done right. I certainly meant no offence that way.

Bottom line, that I think we can all agree with - Can't wait to get to the track and I don't care who/what I race. But to race a new GTO would be a thrill. Let the best car/driver win.

rok4d

[cm_ls1]

other than the missing scoops , i do see resemblance in the two, except the new one is much more modern and aerodynamic... look at the horizontal lights, the grill, the fogs , the indicators... the only thing it needs is scoops (which would be no-functional anyway)

[JOEMACH]

I can see some resenblence there.....If the grill treatment was a bit closer to the original gto in size and shape...maybe larger.....hood scoops could become functionable with not too much creativity and would tie it in towards the original depending on what year scoops they'd go with. to me it still looks like an updated front end of a 99 Grand Prix GTP.....car needs something to stand out....I don't want to rain on anybodys parade.....it's just my opinion.